I don't know if battery-powered detectors connect with each other (I would guess they don't but I could be wrong) but wired ones do connect together (for example at my house if the one in the basement is activated, the one upstairs will also be triggered).
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- #4
Feb 25th, 2022 11:40 am
Does the code make it clear that a battery-powered alarm is a reduced level of safety?miscbrah1 wrote: ↑ This actually falls under the fire code as the building code applies to new requirements while the fire code essentially maintains those requirements.
This is a fire code violation as you are now reducing the level of safety from a hardwired life safety device (possibility with a strobe) to a battery version without a strobe. AFAIK, only wired connected devices are acceptable to the codes currently as well.
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- #5
Feb 25th, 2022 11:41 am
Google Nest protectors can connect to each other without being hardwired (via wifi), but they don’t meet fire code as they lack the strobe light that is required today (speaking for ON only).
Before I closed on my house (older house, before strobe light was code), I did inquire about Nest protectors when I was shopping for home insurance. Every agent said they didn’t see any issues with having them and why it would invalidate fire related claims. However, they didn’t really seem too knowledgeable/confident in the fire code requirements…
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- #6
Feb 25th, 2022 12:04 pm
There are battery powered that can be connected. Unsure how reliable.
Maybe not specific to op, but generally, I've gone with more is better. I've added battery powered ones to all floors, to suport the builder wired.
Also allowed for me to cover the two types of fires with two types of detectors. And my basement was only smoke, not CO. So I had few reasons for adding battery ones to existing wired system.
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- #7
Feb 25th, 2022 12:12 pm
Yes it does.CaptSmethwick wrote: ↑
Does the code make it clear that a battery-powered alarm is a reduced level of safety?
Replacement
6.3.3.7. (1) A smoke alarm shall be replaced within the time frame indicated in the manufacturer’s instructions.
(2) When a smoke alarm is replaced
(a) in the case of a suite subject to Part 9, the replacement shall not provide a lower level or type of protection than that required by Part 9,
(b) in the case of a suite not subject to Part 9 that was constructed on or after April 6, 1998, the replacement shall not provide a lower level or type of protection than that required by the Building Code in effect at the time of construction of the suite, and
(c) in the case of a suite not subject to Part 9 that was constructed before April 6, 1998, the replacement shall not provide a lower level or type of protection than that required by Article 2.13.2.1.
As a fire inspector, I've yet to see wireless interconnected devices accepted by a building inspector.
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- #8
Feb 25th, 2022 12:30 pm
So, is it the power source or the interconnection method that makes battery-powered units "lower level or type of protection"? Not that it matters but in a house where only one smoke alarm would comply with code, there would be no need for interconnection. In that case, why would a battery-powered unit offer a lower level of protection?miscbrah1 wrote: ↑ Yes it does.
Replacement
6.3.3.7. (1) A smoke alarm shall be replaced within the time frame indicated in the manufacturer’s instructions.
(2) When a smoke alarm is replaced
(a) in the case of a suite subject to Part 9, the replacement shall not provide a lower level or type of protection than that required by Part 9,
(b) in the case of a suite not subject to Part 9 that was constructed on or after April 6, 1998, the replacement shall not provide a lower level or type of protection than that required by the Building Code in effect at the time of construction of the suite, and
(c) in the case of a suite not subject to Part 9 that was constructed before April 6, 1998, the replacement shall not provide a lower level or type of protection than that required by Article 2.13.2.1.
As a fire inspector, I've yet to see wireless interconnected devices accepted by a building inspector.
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- #9
Feb 25th, 2022 12:45 pm
My wireless interconnected comment was referring to other posters here. But yes, it's all of the above. The power source, interconnection between other life safety devices and the strobe (I've yet to seen code compliant battery strobes).CaptSmethwick wrote: ↑ So, is it the power source or the interconnection method that makes battery-powered units "lower level or type of protection"? Not that it matters but in a house where only one smoke alarm would comply with code, there would be no need for interconnection. In that case, why would a battery-powered unit offer a lower level of protection?
But you also have to keep in mind this only applies to houses built after a certain year where the wiring is existing and was built to the building code requirement of the day or if a permit was taken out on an older house (depending on what was done). Original houses in the 1950s for example are fine with battery operated smoke alarms.
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- #10
Feb 25th, 2022 3:50 pm
It would not make sense to consider wifi to be reliable, at least not in code I would hope. If your router crashes or if the detector cannot connect because the password was changed, the static IP address is already in use, the MAC address is filtered etc
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- #11
Feb 25th, 2022 5:02 pm
You cannot replace a hardwired detector with a battery powered one in my region of BC. I enquired about it a year and a half ago when it came up here. I got the news directly from my insurance company which is what you and everyone should do. When dealing with insurance companies, you want questions answered directly from them and in writing, if possible. I was told (after my insurer did 2 days of research) that installing battery detectors where hardwired ones were installed due to code requirements would void my coverage in the event of a claim.
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- #13
Feb 26th, 2022 7:26 am
I'd be surprised if that was really the case. If you were negligent and somehow hooked up a battery operated smoke alarm to 120 volt a.c. wiring and that caused the fire, I could see how that might disqualify. If your home was insured as an interconnected and hard wired and a "monitored" system I could see them looking to void coverage in that instance.smacd wrote: ↑ You cannot replace a hardwired detector with a battery powered one in my region of BC. I enquired about it a year and a half ago when it came up here. I got the news directly from my insurance company which is what you and everyone should do. When dealing with insurance companies, you want questions answered directly from them and in writing, if possible. I was told (after my insurer did 2 days of research) that installing battery detectors where hardwired ones were installed due to code requirements would void my coverage in the event of a claim.
The insurance company could try to offer a reduced settlement if a hardwired interconnected system was replaced with a battery non interconnected where there was a death or personal injury. I could perhaps see the basis for that?
One would expect that there must be a specific term in your contract to let them void or attempt to void coverage for doing the above. Did they tell you which term of the contract the disqualification falled under?
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- #14
Feb 26th, 2022 8:57 am
I bought a 3-pack hard wired with battery back up Smoke&CO combined detectors from Costco. Just plug in. I think the wire plugs are universal. Work great. They are super loud when they go off.GTA12345 wrote: ↑ There are battery powered that can be connected. Unsure how reliable.
Maybe not specific to op, but generally, I've gone with more is better. I've added battery powered ones to all floors, to suport the builder wired.
Also allowed for me to cover the two types of fires with two types of detectors. And my basement was only smoke, not CO. So I had few reasons for adding battery ones to existing wired system.
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- #15
Feb 26th, 2022 9:12 am
Sorry, what I meant was I still have my existing builder wired system, works fine. Then I added battery powered ones on all floors, both photoelectric and ionization since I couldnt tell which ones the builder used. I also have Rogers detectors. I got a lot of crap stuck to my ceilings.tosave wrote: ↑ I bought a 3-pack hard wired with battery back up Smoke&CO combined detectors from Costco. Just plug in. I think the wire plugs are universal. Work great. They are super loud when they go off.
Basically at this point if I light a match the beeping will wake the dead.
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- #16
Feb 26th, 2022 10:29 am
OP call the Fire Marshall for Ottawa and ask. This is what I did. We live in a late 1940s bungalow. Electricians installed 2 hard wired smoke detectors. The units eventually reached end of life, so I called the Toronto Fire Marshall and asked. I was told that due to grandfathering that battery units were fine elsewhere but that hard wired units had to be replaced with hard wired units so that is what we did. We are getting close to having to replace the current hard wired units again. As pointed out, the units that were last installed are no longer being made so we will have to find something else but it will be hard wired.
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- #17
Feb 26th, 2022 1:13 pm
Yes, as stated in my post, they said I would no longer qualify under the building code. My buildings needed hardwired smoke detectors to get occupancy permits. By bypassing building code, they can void my coverage. Insurance companies are not charities. If they can avoid a payout, they will. It never ceases to amaze me that people will take or give internet advice over what an insurer states with regard to a policy they hold!fergy wrote: ↑ I'd be surprised if that was really the case. Did they tell you which term of the contract the disqualification falled under?
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- #18
Feb 26th, 2022 2:16 pm
@miscbrhah1, do the hard wired smoke detectors on the two separate floors have to be linked together? I have replaced my hard wire alarms with other hard wired alarms, but I have not linked them together since they were different brands.miscbrah1 wrote: ↑ Yes it does.
Replacement
6.3.3.7. (1) A smoke alarm shall be replaced within the time frame indicated in the manufacturer’s instructions.
(2) When a smoke alarm is replaced
(a) in the case of a suite subject to Part 9, the replacement shall not provide a lower level or type of protection than that required by Part 9,
(b) in the case of a suite not subject to Part 9 that was constructed on or after April 6, 1998, the replacement shall not provide a lower level or type of protection than that required by the Building Code in effect at the time of construction of the suite, and
(c) in the case of a suite not subject to Part 9 that was constructed before April 6, 1998, the replacement shall not provide a lower level or type of protection than that required by Article 2.13.2.1.
As a fire inspector, I've yet to see wireless interconnected devices accepted by a building inspector.
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- #19
Feb 26th, 2022 3:41 pm
GoodFellaz wrote: ↑ so OP what is the reason you want to change a perfectly good hardwired smoke detector with a battery powered one? if the hardwired one works, why change it? its best to leave it in its place , right?
Which is better hardwired or battery operated smoke detectors?
Once installed, though, hardwired smoke detectors are better than their battery-powered counterparts in every major aspect—safety, efficiency, maintenance and compliance with local codes.Will taking the battery out of a hard wired smoke detector stop the beeping?
Taking the battery out of a smoke alarm will not make it stop beeping. Even after the battery has died, the detector maintains a residual charge that will keep the chirp going for at least seven days.Can you mix hardwired and battery smoke detectors?
Hardwired and wireless interconnected smoke alarms FireAngel has mixed system capability, allowing for the interlinking of battery and mains alarms. Just one mains powered Smart RF enabled alarm is required to adapt an established hardwired interconnected system to communicate to other FireAngel wireless products.